**Ben Goertzel** (*ben@goertzel.org*)

*Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:16:18 -0500*

**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]**Next message:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 96] Fw: web pages"**Previous message:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 94] Re: [time 85] Re: [time 82] discrete models, QM vs. GR"**Maybe in reply to:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 85] Re: [time 82] discrete models, QM vs. GR"**Next in thread:**Matti Pitkanen: "[time 99] Re: [time 89] Re: [time 77] Re: [time 75] Re: [time 69] Spacetime & consciousness"

*>The amount of entanglement is measured by entanglement entropy
*

*>
*

*>S= Tr(rho*log(rho))= SUM p(m)log(pm)
*

*>
*

*>and is of same form as Shannon entropy characterizing how far subsystem
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*>is from pure state.
*

OK, I understand. Thanks.

*>TGD based QM measurement theory postulates that density matrix rho is the
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*>universal observable measured in quantum measurement and that subsystem
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*>goes in quantum jump to eigenstate |m> of rho with probability p(m)
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*>and thus ends up to pure state without any entanglement.
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This is really not far from the standard von Neumann interpretation

*>> I don't understand this. How do we get from this mathematical measure
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*>> to "cognitive resources"??
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*>
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*>This is a long story told in my homepage
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*>(http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/cbook.html).
*

*>In TGD quantum states are replaced with quantum *histories* and moments
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*>of consciousness correspond to quantum jumps between them. Contents of
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*>conscious experience are assumed to localize into region where
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*>nondeterminism of quantum jump is localized: consciousness is where the
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*>free will is.
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I think this ties in with my theory that "consciousness is randomness"

*>c) The concept of local system has as its TGD analog spacetime sheet of
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*>finite size. The idea of local system is however realized quite
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*>differently in TGD. Hitoshi introduces clock at every point (I
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*>apologives if I have not understood correctly!). In TGD approach
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*>spacetime sheets representing elementary
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*>particles, nuclei, atoms,...ourselves,.... , galaxies,... are
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*>local systems realized as spacetime sheets which have contact to larger
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*>spacetime sheets via extremely tiny wormholes.
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Perhaps the wormholes constitute a clock in some way?

Just daydreaming ;)

*> Quantum jumps between
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*>quantum histories give rise to moments of consciousness creating
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*>the experiences of separation.
*

I think that this general concept is compatible with Hitoshi's theory, but

he realizes the evolution of histories by a different formalism, and he

defines

the "jump leading to a moment of consciousness" as the classification of a

collection

of quantum particles as a local system (center of mass, category)

*>There is no unique objective reality/whole
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*>as in materialistic world view since quantum jump replaces the cosmology
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*>with a new one: as conscious beings also we are (mini)Gods(;-).
*

Agreed

*>A different aspect to whole/part distinction is related to the
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*>manysheeted spacetime concept. Different spacetime sheets correspond
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*>to different branches of physics: at nuclear spacetime sheets nuclear
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*>physics applies and at atomic spacetime sheets atomic physics is
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*>satisfactory description. The reason why these physics are practically
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*>separate is that interactions between different spacetime sheets are
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*>weak.
*

In a discrete view your sheets become lattices, and we have multiple weakly

coupled

lattices

Different sets of links on the same set of nodes, perhaps?

if you could present a discretized version of the many sheeted theory it

would make it more clear to

everyone and might make correspondences with Hitoshi's and other theories

more clear --

just a pie-in-the-sky suggestion ;)

*>I do not believe in mathematical tricks (although I have tried them
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*>occasionally(;-)). My basic philosophy has been to construct quantum TGD
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*>using only the basic classical spinor-geometry generalized to
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*>infinite-dimensional context.
*

But it's all bits and bytes ultimately, Matti. Infinite dimensional math is

a shortcut for some purposes,

but also obscures things sometimes IMO. I say this as a mathematician who

spent many years studying

functional analysis etc.

ben

**Next message:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 96] Fw: web pages"**Previous message:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 94] Re: [time 85] Re: [time 82] discrete models, QM vs. GR"**Maybe in reply to:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 85] Re: [time 82] discrete models, QM vs. GR"**Next in thread:**Matti Pitkanen: "[time 99] Re: [time 89] Re: [time 77] Re: [time 75] Re: [time 69] Spacetime & consciousness"

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