**Matti Pitkanen** (*matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi*)

*Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:16:51 +0300 (EET DST)*

**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]**Next message:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 153] reading"**Previous message:**Stephen P. King: "[time 151] Re: [time 146] Pratt and Consciousness"

On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Ben Goertzel wrote:

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*> >I think here you miss the subjectivity. Who does play the tournament games?
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*> >Who does decide the darwinian group selection? Or Who does divide the universe
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*> >into material and cognitive spacetimes. Or whose body and mind are you
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*> >discussing? Who does make the step-wise adaptation? I think there is no model
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*> >valid without specifying for whom/which the model is.
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*>From TGD view point 'who' exists subjectively only at the moment of
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selection, at the moment of consciousness. There are only acts of

free will, not free willers. Of course, also 'physical who'

as more or less stable system having sufficiently many quantum

jumps per unit time is more practical concept.

*>
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Comment about Ben's consciousness as randomness idea. p-Adic counterpart

of entropy involves p-adic logarithm: direct generalization of logarithm

does not exist for p-adic numbers unless they are of h of from 1+x

or 1/n:th root of it (assuming it exists) and this

forces to define p-adic logaritm in the following manner

Log_p(x= SUM(n)x_np^n=x_0p^n_0 +....)= n_0

This logarithm satisfies the usual rules guaranteing additivity of entropy

defined as

S=SUM_m p_k Log_p(p_k)

where p_k are entanglement probabilities.

What is remarkable that S vanishes identically when p_k have unit p-adic

norm (n_0(p_k)=0). It is not possible to minimize S in quantum jumps

since S is already at minimum. System is entangled but has vanishing

entanglement entropy! Using Buddhist terms: system is enlightened (the

amount of illusions is as small as it can be and system there is no

attachement (that is S>0 entanglement)(;-).

I have seriously considered the possibility that strong from of

NMP allows arbitrary quantum jumps preserving S=0 probability:

enlightened system has extended free will as long as it stays

enlightenedand and looks random from outside.

One could however argue, that quantum measurement leading to eigenstate

of density matrix occurs so that extended free will is not allowed.

I was very enthusiastic about extended free will at some time but

it seems that TGD inspired theory of consciousness could also do without

it if necessary.

*> Each macroscopic system is its own subjectivity, dividing the universe into
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*> In and Out, or if you prefer, Mind and Reality
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*> (I identify Mind with the collection of patterns in the system, not with the
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*> system itself)
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*>
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*> The collection of subjectivities combine (by some kind of Feynman sum?) to form
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*> the intersubjectivity that we call Objective Reality
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*>
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*> Or, this is the World According to Ben ;)
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*>
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*> Ben
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MP

**Next message:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 153] reading"**Previous message:**Stephen P. King: "[time 151] Re: [time 146] Pratt and Consciousness"

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