[time 152] Re: [time 144] Re: [time 121] RE: [time 115] On Pratt's Duality [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras

Matti Pitkanen (matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi)
Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:16:51 +0300 (EET DST)

On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Ben Goertzel wrote:

> >I think here you miss the subjectivity. Who does play the tournament games?
> >Who does decide the darwinian group selection? Or Who does divide the universe
> >into material and cognitive spacetimes. Or whose body and mind are you
> >discussing? Who does make the step-wise adaptation? I think there is no model
> >valid without specifying for whom/which the model is.

>From TGD view point 'who' exists subjectively only at the moment of
selection, at the moment of consciousness. There are only acts of
free will, not free willers. Of course, also 'physical who'
as more or less stable system having sufficiently many quantum
jumps per unit time is more practical concept.

Comment about Ben's consciousness as randomness idea. p-Adic counterpart
of entropy involves p-adic logarithm: direct generalization of logarithm
does not exist for p-adic numbers unless they are of h of from 1+x
or 1/n:th root of it (assuming it exists) and this
forces to define p-adic logaritm in the following manner

Log_p(x= SUM(n)x_np^n=x_0p^n_0 +....)= n_0

This logarithm satisfies the usual rules guaranteing additivity of entropy
defined as

S=SUM_m p_k Log_p(p_k)

where p_k are entanglement probabilities.

What is remarkable that S vanishes identically when p_k have unit p-adic
norm (n_0(p_k)=0). It is not possible to minimize S in quantum jumps
since S is already at minimum. System is entangled but has vanishing
entanglement entropy! Using Buddhist terms: system is enlightened (the
amount of illusions is as small as it can be and system there is no
attachement (that is S>0 entanglement)(;-).

I have seriously considered the possibility that strong from of
NMP allows arbitrary quantum jumps preserving S=0 probability:
enlightened system has extended free will as long as it stays
enlightenedand and looks random from outside.
One could however argue, that quantum measurement leading to eigenstate
of density matrix occurs so that extended free will is not allowed.
I was very enthusiastic about extended free will at some time but
it seems that TGD inspired theory of consciousness could also do without
it if necessary.

> Each macroscopic system is its own subjectivity, dividing the universe into
> In and Out, or if you prefer, Mind and Reality
> (I identify Mind with the collection of patterns in the system, not with the
> system itself)
> The collection of subjectivities combine (by some kind of Feynman sum?) to form
> the intersubjectivity that we call Objective Reality
> Or, this is the World According to Ben ;)
> Ben



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