[time 523] Re: [time 519] Re: Refocusing

Matti Pitkanen (matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi)
Sat, 7 Aug 1999 17:29:40 +0300 (EET DST)

On Sat, 7 Aug 1999, Stephen P. King wrote:

> Dear Matti,
> Matti Pitkanen wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 7 Aug 1999, Stephen P. King wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Matti,
> > >
> > > It appears that I am unable to argue Pratt's case adequately. So, I
> > > will try another tack. I have re-read Time V
> > > (http://www.kitada.com/time_V.html), and think that it offers a simple
> > > concept that I may be able to discuss better. I will reply to [time 516]
> > > as soon as possible.
> >
> > OK. I hope my rhetorics was not too provocative. It was just rhetorics
> > in order to clarify what we were talking about(;-)!
> I get frustrated by the lack of clarification that I am getting. I
> blame it on my own problem in translating my pictoral style thinking
> into words...
> > What interests me would be opinions about what are the fundamental
> > operations performed by conscious computational mind, operations which
> > do not reduce to anything simpler. I have been able to identify too such
> > operations in TGD framework.
> Please read ratmech.ps! Pratt tells us these "atomic" opratations:
> "Functions identify and adjoin..." "Antifunctions copy and delete..."
> (Functions and antifunctions being acts of body and mind respectively!)
> pg. 4, ratmech.ps

I will. I already but could not find the file.
> > Comparison of prediction for geometric time development and
> > memory about subjective time development
> > would be one basic operation. Most emotions would reflect the result of
> > comparison of this kind (frustration, happiness,..)
> Emotions are "value" weightings, I think. They are subjective
> "reactions" to the conditions of the physical/mental aspect of the self
> at the moment, which are given by this comparison... They look like
> curvature or anholomorphisms...
The difference with pures sensory experience is that many emotions
involving comparison of expected with what actually happened.
Emotions like pure love are exception to this rule.

> > [Geometric 'memory' is essentially simulation for what
> > will happen and happened assuming that no quantum jumps would occur (world
> > would be classical) and gives rise to intentionality: plans, desires,
> > expectations, guesses what events led to particular situation,
> > classical physics,.... Subjective time development corresponds
> > to quantum jumps and subjective me memory is about quantum jumps occurred
> > after the wake-up of self].
> Umm, but a self is only aware of "geometric time" by this definition.

Self is aware of both geometric and subjective time. Conscious
experience is heap of conscious experiences associated with quantum jumps
starting from the moment of wake-up. Each experience in heap is also
prediction of geometric future and past: expectation.
This heap structure makes possible comparison of expected and
actual. Heap is sequence of observations: I think you have
talked about this in earlier discussions.

[Note: before the discovery of self the only sensical hypothesis
was that single quantum jump determines contents of cs experience
so that there would be no memory about earlier cs experiences.]

> The subjective time development demarks the evolution of the self
> it-self, this is related to the means by which the self encodes and
> decyphers meaning... We are never directly aware of the self that is
> observer, when speaking first person, we are only aware of a dim
> reflection of it...

> > Self could perhaps also compare its subselves representing symbols in
> > accuracy given by pinary cutoff and say whether they are identical or not
> > in some respects. This aspect might be important for computationalism.
> Yes, the method by which such a comparison occurs is most important!

> > Communication by copying or reproducing selves or programs identified as
> > self cascades could be also basic operation.
> yes!
> > But what other fundamental operations not reducible to anything simpler
> > one could imagine? Help of a computationalist would be needed!(:-)

> Agreed!



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