**Matti Pitkänen** (*matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi*)

*Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:52:49 +0200*

**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]**Next message:**Stephen Paul King: "[time 992] Distinct yet Identical"**Previous message:**Stephen Paul King: "[time 990] Re: [time 987] a fundamental question on QM time"**In reply to:**Koichiro Matsuno: "[time 987] RE: [time 985] Re: [time 983] RE: [time 978] a fundamental question on QM time"

----- Original Message -----

From: Stephen Paul King <stephenk1@home.com>

To: Matti Pitkänen <matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi>

Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 5:21 PM

Subject: Re: [time 988] Communications in four-dimensional society

*> Dear Matti,
*

*>
*

*> I will be reading this carerfully and responding as soon as possible,
*

*> but meanwhile, would you have a comment on this paper:
*

*> http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/quant-ph/9902037 ?
*

*>
*

*> Later,
*

*>
*

*> Stephen
*

*>
*

I read the paper. To my humble opinion the idea was one of

those idea which usually come and go in five minutes.

The program was to reduce quantum physics understood as four-dimensional

Dirac equation to classical physics in the following manner.

a) Replace time with 3-dimensional time.

b) The second part of idea was that the ability of quantum particle

to exist in several positions simultaneously is equivalent with

geometric existence at several points simultaneously. This is

to me complete misunderstanding of quantum mechanical

superposition principle.

c) This idea was attempted to realize in terms of 3-dimensional time.

Assume that the particle's "position" is intersection of its orbit in

6-dimensional

space with some 3-dimensional submanifold of this 6-dimensional space.

If the orbit intersects 3-space in several points this corresponds

to Schrodinger amplitude which is simultaneously vanishing in

these points. The idea fails: orbit should intersect

*all* points of 3-space! One should have also measure for the

probability of intersection.

d) The idea about several intersection points meets also difficulties.

There was no receipe for how to choose this 3-dimensional submanifold.

Usually the intersection of orbit of particle in 6-dpsace is empty generic

3-sub-manifold.

Even if one restricts the consideration to the case that intersection

contains

at least one point, it is extremely unpprobable that it contains more than

one point.

This follows from simple topological rule: n-dimensional and 1-dimensional

surfaces

have nonvanishing intersection in D-dimensional manifold for D<=n+1

but not for D>n+1.

e) There was also an extremely messy argument claiming that

solutions of Dirac equation in 4 dimensions correspond to

points of this 6-dimensional manifold. Consideration

was restricted to planewave solutions

of Dirac equation and this is of course not enough.

Arbitrary superposition of planewaves should be

representable in this manner and this would require

infinite-dimensional space since the space of

square integrable solutions of Dirac equation

is infinite-dimensional.

With Best Regards,

Matti Pitkanen

*> Matti Pitkänen wrote:
*

*> >
*

*> > Communications in four-dimensional society
*

*> >
*

*> > TGD based theory of consciousness leads to the idea of
*

*> > four-dimensional society formed by cognitive spacetime sheets
*

*> > glued everywhere on the material spacetime surface.
*

*> > The idea about four-dimensional society makes really sense only if
*

*> > communication between members of this society is possible. It would be
*

*> > even better if communication could occur in "real subjective time". This
*

*> > seems to be possible in principle as the following arguments show.
*

*> >
*

*> > 1. Communication method
*

*> >
*

*> > A simple model for real time communication between societies
*

*> > of future and past is based on the possibility of spacetime sheets
*

*> > of negative time orientation having negative energy density. It
*

*> > seems natural to assume that at least classical signals propagate
*

*> > from geometric future to geometric past along these spacetime sheets.
*

*> > As suggested in the chapters "Biosystems as macroscopic quantum
*

systems"

*> > and
*

*> > "Quantum antenna hypothesis" of [cbook], negative energy
*

*> > "massless extremals" could make possible coherent motion of
*

*> > living systems. It seems that they could make possible also "real
*

*> > subjective time" communications in four-dimensional society.
*

*> >
*

*> > a) Signals to geometric future propagate along spacetime sheets of
*

*> > positive time orientation. These spacetime sheets can correspond
*

*> > to ordinary material spacetime sheets but also almost vacuum
*

*> > spacetime sheets can be considered. In particular, so called "massless
*

*> > extremals" (see the chapter "Quantum antenna hypothesis" of [cbook])
*

*> > are possible.
*

*> >
*

*> > b) Signals to the geometric past propagate along spacetime sheets
*

*> > of negative time orientation. Negative energy massless extremals
*

*> > are the optimal choice as far as classical communication is involved.
*

*> > The reason is that signal propagates with maximal signal velocity and
*

*> > consists of Fourier components with same momentum direction so that
*

*> > the shape of pulse is preserved. Polarization direction at a given
*

*> > point of the massless extremal is constant and depends on the
*

*> > transversal coordinates only. Solution involves two arbitrary
*

functions

*> > and linear
*

*> > superposition of parallel Fourier components with identical polarization
*

*> > directions is
*

*> > possible. Therefore all possible pulse shapes are possible.
*

*> >
*

*> > c) What happens in the communication is following. Sender performs
*

*> > quantum jump in which massless extremal of positive/negative energy is
*

*> > generated
*

*> > representing signal propagating to geometric future/past. Some
*

*> > standardized
*

*> > alphabet formed by the pulse forms for massless extremals: two basic
*

*> > pulse shapes identifiable as binary digits is the simplest choice.
*

*> > Receiver interacts with the massless extremal purely classically to
*

*> > receive the message and generates massless extremal propagating
*

*> > to geometric past/future as a reply. The difference between sender
*

*> > and receiver is that sender performs quantum jump whereas receiver
*

*> > just acts purely classically to receive the message.
*

*> >
*

*> > d) The commmunication is on-line "real subjective time"
*

*> > communication. There is no need to wait for next billion
*

*> > years for reply and members of cultures separated by billions of
*

*> > light years can have real time chat about their family problems.
*

*> >
*

*> > 2. Anomalies related to spinning astrophysical
*

*> > objects as empirical support for the idea
*

*> snip
*

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