**Matti Pitkanen** (*matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi*)

*Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:14:54 +0300 (EET DST)*

**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]**Next message:**Matti Pitkanen: "[time 136] Re: [time 123] RE: [time 69] Spacetime & consciousness"**Previous message:**Matti Pitkanen: "[time 134] Re: [time 108] Re: [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras"**In reply to:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 118] Re: [time 108] Re: [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras"**Next in thread:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 144] Re: [time 121] RE: [time 115] On Pratt's Duality [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras"

On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Hitoshi Kitada wrote:

*> Dear Stephen,
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*>
*

*> -----Original Message-----
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*> From: Stephen P. King <stephenk1@home.com>
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*> To: Time List <time@kitada.com>
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*> Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 12:33 AM
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*> Subject: [time 115] On Pratt's Duality [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue,
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*> algebras
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*>
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*>
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*> >Hi All,
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*> >
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*> > A brief note. The duality that Pratt speaks to can is exeplified by the
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*> >duality between the set of vectors in a tangent space and its cotangent
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*> >space of linear functionals. Each of these can be seen as a 4-space. It
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*> >could be that octonions are involved, but I do not know the details. But
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*> >I do notice that this looks like Matti's thoughts:
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*> >
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*> >> "One one results on my side was the realization that 8-dimensional
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*> >> imbedding space H of TGD allows octonionic structures as tangent space
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*> >> structure: one could say that H is locally a number field. Future
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*> >> lightcone of Minkowski space allows very natural quaternion structure.
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*> >> This was a surprise for me since I had used to think quaternions are
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*> >> as inherently Euclidian space: one can however define also Minkowksi
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*> >> metric: inner product is defined as the real part of xy instead of
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*> >> real part of x^*y."
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*> >
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*> >and
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*> >
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*> >> "In TGD framework cognitive spacetime sheets, which are nearly vacuum and
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*> >> have finite time duration. [Energy and other conserved quantities flow
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*> >> from material spacetime sheets to cognitive sheets when they are formed
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*> >> and back to material spacetime sheets when cognitive spacetime sheets
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*> >> disappear.] The entanglement of cognitive spacetime sheets, 'Mind' with
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*> >> spacetime sheets carrying matter, 'Matter' is reduced in allowed quantum
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*> >> jumps."
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*> >
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*> > I am interested in how we pair-wise partition the Universe into, to use
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*> >MAtti's terms, material and cognitive spacetimes. I think the former are
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*> >modeled by Pratt's Body and the latter by Mind. There is an optimization
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*> >involved that looks like Matti's ideas, but I am missing the details of
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*> >its mechanism. Is it like a step-wise adaptation or a converging
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*> >tournament of games or a darwinian group selection, or all of the above?
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*>
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*> I think here you miss the subjectivity. Who does play the tournament games?
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*> Who does decide the darwinian group selection? Or Who does divide the universe
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*> into material and cognitive spacetimes. Or whose body and mind are you
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*> discussing? Who does make the step-wise adaptation? I think there is no model
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*> valid without specifying for whom/which the model is.
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*>
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*> >:) Could the act of communication be represented by "wormholes"? How do
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*> >we quantitate the information flow allows by wormholes?
*

Certainly wormholes mediate interaction between spacetime sheets. If

communication means formation of cognitive representation in the sense

that physics of the larger spacetime sheet is mapped to the physics of

smaller spacetime sheet, the answer to your question is yes. For

instance, radio communication means

this kind of mapping (say, frequences are mapped to frequencies)

The complex order parameter of wormhole BE condensate is especially

attractive representation of information. For instance, the integers

characterizing the change of the phase over closed loops (abundantly

present in multiply connected topology of spacetime sheets) are almost

topological quantum numbers.

It is known that his kind of quantum numbers are related to biosystems:

Winfree describes in his book 'The geometry of biological time'(?)

amazing example of this: one can associated to leg a conserved winding

number: the direction of leg is in now in role of time. The winding

quantum numbers are opposite for right and left legs. If one tries to

implant left leg to the place of right one: it does not succeed: two

additional legs grow to take

care of conservation of the total winding number! This could be regarded

as a direct evidence for presence of complex order parameters describing

macroscopic BE condensates of some kind.

In the model of EEG and nerve

pulse nerve pulse sequences correspond to soliton sequences for Sine

Gordon describing Josephson junction formed by cell membranes and EEG

corresponds to collective oscillations of the phase depending on time

only.

[The interaction of electrons and wormholes is also interesting.

Atomic valence electrons could drop from atomic spacetime sheet to larger

spacetime sheets. In TGD inspired theory of consciousness new form of

high temperature super conductivity is assumed: non-atomic spacetime

sheets are very cool and almost empty and BE condensates of Cooper pairs

on nonatomic spacetime sheets are possible. A good candidate for the

attractive interaction making

possible Cooper pairs is classical em interaction between electrons and

.... charged wormholes (the two throats of the wormhole carry opposite

classical em gauge charges defined naturally by the electric flux through

the wormhole)!

Actually, one of the basic virtues of manysheeted spacetime could be the

presence of very cold and almost empty spacetime sheets making possible

macroscopic quantum phases.]

MP

**Next message:**Matti Pitkanen: "[time 136] Re: [time 123] RE: [time 69] Spacetime & consciousness"**Previous message:**Matti Pitkanen: "[time 134] Re: [time 108] Re: [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras"**In reply to:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 118] Re: [time 108] Re: [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras"**Next in thread:**Ben Goertzel: "[time 144] Re: [time 121] RE: [time 115] On Pratt's Duality [time 81] Entropy, wholeness, dialogue, algebras"

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