[time 790] Re: [time 786] Question for Matti

Matti Pitkanen (matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi)
Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:44:52 +0300 (EET DST)

On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 WDEshleman@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/17/99 12:19:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> matpitka@pcu.helsinki.fi writes:
> > > [MP]
> > > Precisely. Universe is the highest self in the hierarchy of selves
> > > and is continually awake since it cannot entangle with anything larger
> > > and thus lose its consciousness.
> > >
> > > [WDE]
> > > It is only a look[HK]. The reasoning that leads to the relativistic
> > > prediction of the phenomenon of an event horizon surrounding a
> > > black-hole at R = 2 * G * M / c^2, also leads to a relativistic event-
> > > horizon surrounding a universe.
> >
> [MP]
> > I think that your argument about horizon does not bite in case of TGD.
> > The concept of event horizon belongs to the realm of geometric spacetime.
> > I am speaking about universe as quantum history: superposition
> > of spacetime surfaces. It does not matter whether spacetime surfaces
> > have event horizons since the concept of universe as self is
> > purely Hilbert-space level concept.
> [WDE]
> I know that you imagine everything wrapped in TGD surfaces. I too see
> a wrapping, but by event-horizons. The wrapping for our bodies and brains
> etc., I suggest, is at the level of our atoms and molecules. The geometric
> spacetime has the concept of event-horizon, I admit that it is likely to be a
> purely relativistic phenomenon. What happens if you wrap a TGD surface
> around a spherical mass (M) of radius (R), such that R = GM/c^2 ?

I hope I am answering to your question.

a) Event horizon R=2GM (hbar=c=1) General Relativistic phenomenon
Also in TGD also event horizons appear (trivially). One can imbed
Schwartchild metric as 4-surface and finds that it is imbedddable dow to a
radius which is something like 10^-14 times Schwartschild radius 2GM.
Therefore black holes emerge also in TGD

If I had chosen CP_2 radius to be order Planck length, I would have
practically lost blackholes, the imbeddability of Schwarschild metric
would have failed at distance of order event horizon and this would
have killed TGD.

b) Besides event horizons there are elementary particle horizons.
These are 3-surfaces at which the spacetime metric changes from
Minkowskian signature to Euclidian signature. All wormhole throats
connecting spacetime sheets to larger spacetime sheets are surrounded
by this kind of horizons. At horizon determinant of
the induced metric vanishes. This means classically that there is
not any strong interaction between interior degrees of freedom
of various spacetime sheets: they feel only gravitational force
and electric forces affecting center of mass motion.

This in turn leads to to the idea that different
spacetime sheets behave like selves and do not generate much entanglement
with other sheets. One could say that selves are quantum counterparts
of blackholes/objects surrounded by elementary particle horizon.

In any case, when I speak about universe I mean quantum history and
entire infinite spacetime surface, which by definition cannot be
surrounded by event horizon since there is no larger 3-surface


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